The problem is real exposure. Let's assume a toilet-goer is highly likely to purchase a nice Toto as long as they have a decent first experience.
Where are they going to have said experience? Traveling? Not many people go to Japan. I suppose this could happen via slow osmosis, but I doubt it. A friend's house? The circle is pretty small. A business? Most likely! However, a lot of businesses are (rightly) skeptical about putting a toilet like that in, because of 1) cost if it breaks 2) making customers uncomfortable because of confusion trying to figure it out 3) difficulty adjusting to what a bidet feels like. Special emphasis on 2. It's not like you can go in there and show every customer; and we all know that customers are idiots and even a very detailed sign explaining will be ignored in horrendous ways.
So we are stuck at the beginning. Practically zero practical exposure leads to practically zero interest. The only way around this is presumably some form of marketing, making it seem exciting enough that a zero-experience consumer will order one. That has its own challenges, the most obvious being: people virtually never replace their toilet unless they have to, and in that case they need a new one fast. And building your own home/planned renovation? Sadly, toilets tend to be very low on the list of decisions to be made. I know this is all broadly true judging by my time working in a hardware store adjacent to the toilet selling area. Add on to that, the fact that most consumers feel like they need a plumber to install one, and plumbers are incredibly expensive? The current situation explains itself.
This is a great comment on the difficulty of exposure for non Japanese consumers. Its difficult to imagine businesses choosing the more expensive option when no one is expecting it and they're at the whim of the customers!
In a business context I think 1) is a pretty big one, actually. Seeing the state of regular public toilets around me, I can't imagine one with a bunch of electronic features would last very long.
Hi. Among other jobs, I'm a small-time plumber in the USA.
The biggest problem I see with this device is the need for electrical service to it; if I'm not mistaken, Japan uses a different electrical voltage than the US does (100 volts to the US 110-120), which requires plug adapters for long-term use. Also a new outlet (GFCI) would need to be installed and wired to on a separate circuit from bathroom main power (due to additional "Amp draw" from the 100- 110v adaptation). This raises the expense of installing one in a private home exponentially.
The solution is probably 9v/12v battery power; easy to change and lit only at point of use (maybe a pressure switch on the seat?). Also the device needs to function at a basic level (ie, flush) if the battery/ies are dead. Manual operation alongside would cover that. Some water-supplies would have to be upgraded too; to supply both tank and bidet functions.
Just some thing for you (and Toto) to consider. You got a sub, boss. Nice to meet ya!
This, exactly. I lived in Japan for 3 years, and really wanted a washlet when I came back home. I had to pay a total of $1200 for the unit and electrical outlet. It's totally worth it, but daunting for most folks.
I was lucky enough to go to the Galapagos Islands and Japan. I was shocked of the isolation of Japan in the world, it was the feeling I got as a tourist. Not only the languge, but the culture.
For the Galapagos, Darwin discovered that species over-specialised, with new organs and new functions could have more high chance to survive. But I think he added that they could be destroyed from any external animal and can't adapt to fight it, because others species could be more rapid in evolution. I am afraid there is a bit of truth for our fellow japanese fellows, isolation conserve traditions, but it seems Japan is FAR behind of everyone, like society mental health. We can say "behind" for globalisation, but it can be "advanced" for nationalisation.
Take it with a grain of salt, it's not the only country with problems but Japan should open a bit more up, in hope to not be left alone, but with protecting their personnal culture. Economy since decade is international, so not playing the "game with others" could put you on the side. And the culture is probably eating itself, it (probably) needs to feed from others cultures to stay relevent.
To sell outside of Japan, I'd go with "less is more". Instead of dozen extra functions, just add one or two; ask potential customers which ones sound least weird to them. No electronic display, just a mechanical button with a picture and text.
I agree... These toilets are met with confusion at first from westerners. However if you were selling a toilet with a heated seat... Thats not so weird is it!
As an American, I have no idea what this is really about. I certainly wouldn't pay triple merely to "play music or fake flushing sounds" so what makes them so much better? Do they somehow have integrated bidets? Even if so, never having experienced one, I don't know I would want one.
The analogy falls apart, too, since we finches have visited Japan, Japanese visit the rest of the world, and the technology doesn't catch on.
Yeah having read up on Japanese toilets after reading this a lot of the features are things I either don't want or can get more cheaply by other means. Usual features include:
A. Heated bidet - This sort of thing is becoming more popular in the US, but you can get pretty affordable kits to give a regular toilet this functionality if you want
B. Heated seat - Might be nice but not something I would spend a whole lot of money on
C. Noisemaker to cover sound of urination - Based on a cultural taboo that doesn't exist here
D. Deodorizer - Again, there are plenty of deodorizing products that don't require you to swap out your toilet
Some other common features, like automatic lid open and close, just strike me as unnecessary and again seem to be based on cleanliness taboos I don't share. Some of the nicest models have self-cleaning features that seem cool, but not cool enough to spend that much money buying a new toilet (Plus wiring it into my home's electric system).
Thanks for the comments, these are great points on how Japanese culture has meant that maybe the only need for a "sophisticated" Japanese toilet is in Japan
This was my experience recently with Japanese toilets at a Hawaiian hotel. When I first read about bidets, I thought they sounded like a great idea and worth a $30 risk for a simple unheated mechanical bidet; and it was! Regular toilets are indeed inferior and disgusting, and bidets so simple and cheap there's no real excuse except cultural prejudices and fears of discussing bidets making you sound weird & creepy. I wondered if there was anything a $300 or $3000 fancy electronic Japanese toilet going beyond the bidet could do for me, but the price & installation daunted me; after trying it with great interest at the hotel, I... couldn't see anything I'd want to pay for at all, and was glad I hadn't gone beyond my little bidet.
So my impression of Japanese toilets beyond the bidet is that they are not Galapagos syndrome cases; they do not serve a peculiarly Japanese need or leapfrogged the rest of the world into a technological deadend, like their featurephones did. They just aren't a great product to begin with, and are a Japanese fad, similar to things like square fruit or the 'first strawberries of the year'.
Elsewhere in Asia at least (like Singapore) they are a rare but not unheard of feature, particularly in wealthy households. Posh hotels and restaurants sometimes have them too. I may be misremembering, but I’m sure I’ve seen them occasionally in Europe too - although bidets in general are more common there. I suspect anywhere that uses bidets (Europe with sink bidets, East Asia with sprayjets) will be more comfortable with the concept.
Thanks for the comment Nicholas. I wasn't aware that they were common across Asia and maybe Europe. I think you're right that the concept of the bidet needs to be accepted first.
The short answer is that hardly anyone needs the Washlet.
Yes, foreigners come to Japan and go OH! and AH! over them, but paying all that money for a toilet? The only really useful gadget is the bidet which is already available in other countries (e.g. Italy, France).
Interesting! I hadn't thought about how copreratism might be holding back exports in Japan.
Some random oberservations.
- At the local beach in my town the heated seats are switched to on 365 days a year. I don't know if this is my mistake or what but it must literally burn money. I've also noticed this in a cafe I frequent.
- I work in a school and the staff toilets are Western style e.g. no fancy toto stuff. Not sure if it's cheapness on their part or some exception to the rule that fancy toilets are good.
- I have thought that the difficulty of mantaining these toliets is maybe part of the appeal? More spare parts for toto to sell, more charges for the apartments to charge etc. From my POV it turns a one-time purchase into a subscription.
The problem is real exposure. Let's assume a toilet-goer is highly likely to purchase a nice Toto as long as they have a decent first experience.
Where are they going to have said experience? Traveling? Not many people go to Japan. I suppose this could happen via slow osmosis, but I doubt it. A friend's house? The circle is pretty small. A business? Most likely! However, a lot of businesses are (rightly) skeptical about putting a toilet like that in, because of 1) cost if it breaks 2) making customers uncomfortable because of confusion trying to figure it out 3) difficulty adjusting to what a bidet feels like. Special emphasis on 2. It's not like you can go in there and show every customer; and we all know that customers are idiots and even a very detailed sign explaining will be ignored in horrendous ways.
So we are stuck at the beginning. Practically zero practical exposure leads to practically zero interest. The only way around this is presumably some form of marketing, making it seem exciting enough that a zero-experience consumer will order one. That has its own challenges, the most obvious being: people virtually never replace their toilet unless they have to, and in that case they need a new one fast. And building your own home/planned renovation? Sadly, toilets tend to be very low on the list of decisions to be made. I know this is all broadly true judging by my time working in a hardware store adjacent to the toilet selling area. Add on to that, the fact that most consumers feel like they need a plumber to install one, and plumbers are incredibly expensive? The current situation explains itself.
This is a great comment on the difficulty of exposure for non Japanese consumers. Its difficult to imagine businesses choosing the more expensive option when no one is expecting it and they're at the whim of the customers!
In a business context I think 1) is a pretty big one, actually. Seeing the state of regular public toilets around me, I can't imagine one with a bunch of electronic features would last very long.
Hi. Among other jobs, I'm a small-time plumber in the USA.
The biggest problem I see with this device is the need for electrical service to it; if I'm not mistaken, Japan uses a different electrical voltage than the US does (100 volts to the US 110-120), which requires plug adapters for long-term use. Also a new outlet (GFCI) would need to be installed and wired to on a separate circuit from bathroom main power (due to additional "Amp draw" from the 100- 110v adaptation). This raises the expense of installing one in a private home exponentially.
The solution is probably 9v/12v battery power; easy to change and lit only at point of use (maybe a pressure switch on the seat?). Also the device needs to function at a basic level (ie, flush) if the battery/ies are dead. Manual operation alongside would cover that. Some water-supplies would have to be upgraded too; to supply both tank and bidet functions.
Just some thing for you (and Toto) to consider. You got a sub, boss. Nice to meet ya!
-Shags,
Cleveland, OH US
This, exactly. I lived in Japan for 3 years, and really wanted a washlet when I came back home. I had to pay a total of $1200 for the unit and electrical outlet. It's totally worth it, but daunting for most folks.
I was lucky enough to go to the Galapagos Islands and Japan. I was shocked of the isolation of Japan in the world, it was the feeling I got as a tourist. Not only the languge, but the culture.
For the Galapagos, Darwin discovered that species over-specialised, with new organs and new functions could have more high chance to survive. But I think he added that they could be destroyed from any external animal and can't adapt to fight it, because others species could be more rapid in evolution. I am afraid there is a bit of truth for our fellow japanese fellows, isolation conserve traditions, but it seems Japan is FAR behind of everyone, like society mental health. We can say "behind" for globalisation, but it can be "advanced" for nationalisation.
Take it with a grain of salt, it's not the only country with problems but Japan should open a bit more up, in hope to not be left alone, but with protecting their personnal culture. Economy since decade is international, so not playing the "game with others" could put you on the side. And the culture is probably eating itself, it (probably) needs to feed from others cultures to stay relevent.
Thanks corbeau! I'd love to visit the Galapagos Islands and see how well the analogy holds up.
I agree that there are many aspects that can be altered in Japan for the better
To sell outside of Japan, I'd go with "less is more". Instead of dozen extra functions, just add one or two; ask potential customers which ones sound least weird to them. No electronic display, just a mechanical button with a picture and text.
That's fair, Toto haven't done a good job showcasing why they need the buttons outside of flush!
I agree... These toilets are met with confusion at first from westerners. However if you were selling a toilet with a heated seat... Thats not so weird is it!
As an American, I have no idea what this is really about. I certainly wouldn't pay triple merely to "play music or fake flushing sounds" so what makes them so much better? Do they somehow have integrated bidets? Even if so, never having experienced one, I don't know I would want one.
The analogy falls apart, too, since we finches have visited Japan, Japanese visit the rest of the world, and the technology doesn't catch on.
Yeah having read up on Japanese toilets after reading this a lot of the features are things I either don't want or can get more cheaply by other means. Usual features include:
A. Heated bidet - This sort of thing is becoming more popular in the US, but you can get pretty affordable kits to give a regular toilet this functionality if you want
B. Heated seat - Might be nice but not something I would spend a whole lot of money on
C. Noisemaker to cover sound of urination - Based on a cultural taboo that doesn't exist here
D. Deodorizer - Again, there are plenty of deodorizing products that don't require you to swap out your toilet
Some other common features, like automatic lid open and close, just strike me as unnecessary and again seem to be based on cleanliness taboos I don't share. Some of the nicest models have self-cleaning features that seem cool, but not cool enough to spend that much money buying a new toilet (Plus wiring it into my home's electric system).
Thanks for the comments, these are great points on how Japanese culture has meant that maybe the only need for a "sophisticated" Japanese toilet is in Japan
This was my experience recently with Japanese toilets at a Hawaiian hotel. When I first read about bidets, I thought they sounded like a great idea and worth a $30 risk for a simple unheated mechanical bidet; and it was! Regular toilets are indeed inferior and disgusting, and bidets so simple and cheap there's no real excuse except cultural prejudices and fears of discussing bidets making you sound weird & creepy. I wondered if there was anything a $300 or $3000 fancy electronic Japanese toilet going beyond the bidet could do for me, but the price & installation daunted me; after trying it with great interest at the hotel, I... couldn't see anything I'd want to pay for at all, and was glad I hadn't gone beyond my little bidet.
So my impression of Japanese toilets beyond the bidet is that they are not Galapagos syndrome cases; they do not serve a peculiarly Japanese need or leapfrogged the rest of the world into a technological deadend, like their featurephones did. They just aren't a great product to begin with, and are a Japanese fad, similar to things like square fruit or the 'first strawberries of the year'.
Elsewhere in Asia at least (like Singapore) they are a rare but not unheard of feature, particularly in wealthy households. Posh hotels and restaurants sometimes have them too. I may be misremembering, but I’m sure I’ve seen them occasionally in Europe too - although bidets in general are more common there. I suspect anywhere that uses bidets (Europe with sink bidets, East Asia with sprayjets) will be more comfortable with the concept.
Thanks for the comment Nicholas. I wasn't aware that they were common across Asia and maybe Europe. I think you're right that the concept of the bidet needs to be accepted first.
Very interesting, thank you!
Thanks for reading Emma!
In Australia I did buy and install similar, but not by Toto, same functions.
The short answer is that hardly anyone needs the Washlet.
Yes, foreigners come to Japan and go OH! and AH! over them, but paying all that money for a toilet? The only really useful gadget is the bidet which is already available in other countries (e.g. Italy, France).
I love the Toto Washlet and would buy it in a heartbeat, but the price is a bit prohibitive. I do have a Tushy which is better than nothing.
Interesting! I hadn't thought about how copreratism might be holding back exports in Japan.
Some random oberservations.
- At the local beach in my town the heated seats are switched to on 365 days a year. I don't know if this is my mistake or what but it must literally burn money. I've also noticed this in a cafe I frequent.
- I work in a school and the staff toilets are Western style e.g. no fancy toto stuff. Not sure if it's cheapness on their part or some exception to the rule that fancy toilets are good.
- I have thought that the difficulty of mantaining these toliets is maybe part of the appeal? More spare parts for toto to sell, more charges for the apartments to charge etc. From my POV it turns a one-time purchase into a subscription.
You got a sub! Thanks!!